[Supertraining] Re: Strength Training for a 800m runner(In Season)

Friday 18 January 2008      0 comments

Nick, yes that sounds like an applicable theory. There have been a
few champion "big" 800 metre runners in my memory -- mostly 400
specialists doing both, eg, Juantorena (Cuba) in the men and
Kratochvilova (Czechoslavakia). I also note that they were part of,
or had access to, methods used by the Soviet block in that era
(enough said).

So I guess that might work out if it were possible to do. My feeling
is that the intervals and distance work required for aerobic and
anaerobic capacity would make it just about impossible for a clean
athlete to run "heavy" and be a champion 800 metre runner. That's not
to say that Brian or anyone else running for fun or training can't
have a great deal of fun. Mind you, Brian might be exceptionally
strong without much bulk. I did not notice his weight.

Borzakovskiy, the current Russian Olympic champ is a big man, but not
overly muscled, and he has huge sprinting anaerobic strength. (BTW,
not suggesting any impropriety on his part.) Watch for him in
Beijing. If you like track and field, there's nothing better than
watching his finishing kick.

Here is what Frank Horwill, a well-known 800 metre coach has to say
about body weight:

"The best weight for two-lappers
-------------------------------
Another important factor that affects the acquisition of greater
endurance is body weight relative to height. Coe was 5ft 9in tall and
weighed 119lbs (1.753m/53.978kg). That is about 40 pounds lighter
than the average non-active man of the same height - or 35 per cent
less! While this may be too extreme, a figure of 10 per cent less (in
this case, 144lbs) must be considered the maximum allowable weight
for the height. Thus, the average man of six feet (1.829m) in height
may weigh 176lbs (84.368kg) but for two-lap purposes he should not
exceed 159lbs (72.121kg). Weight is lost by the avoidance of high-fat
foods and a gradually increasing volume of work."

See the complete article here:
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0059.htm

Cheers,

Paul Rogers
Gympie, Australia

--- In Supertraining@yahoogroups.com, "Nick Tatalias"
<nick.tatalias@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Paul
>
> Or gain equivalent strength endurance so that the power to weight
ratio is
> the same as losing muscle. Easier to get power or lose weight?
>
> Regards
> Nick Tatalias
> Johanesburg
>
>
> On 17/01/2008, Paul Rogers <paulr99@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hey Brian,
> >
> > I probably misunderstood your program. I see that you're mainly a
400
> > hurdler. (Too much info, too little time to absorb everything.)
> >
> > And by the look of those numbers in your workout schedule . . .
man,
> > you'll never run a good 800. You need to lose some muscle! <g>
> >
> > Keep up the experimentation.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Paul Rogers
> > Gympie, Australia
> >
> > --- In Supertraining@yahoogroups.com <Supertraining%
40yahoogroups.com>,
> > "itsmeyoungb" <howmanyukno@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Ok..Let me try to throw my two cents in...
> > >
> > > I am a 400/800 type guy. Although it is true that I need a
certain
> > > amount of mileage, too much will kill me results.This summer, I
did
> > > 25 miles a week on the road,and it absolulely was somewhat of a
> > > detriment to my progress.Although I had better aerobic
capacity, I
> > > had lost a great bit of speed. This was evident as I am a 48 sec
> > 400m
> > > runner and I could only mustard 53 seconds at the beginning of
> > > october.I am just now getting my speed back.
> > >
> > > Something else to remember is I am still mainly a 400 hurdler.
I am
> > > running the 800 indoors to help the last 200 meters of my race
for
> > > the 400 hurdles. I think Paul understood it as I only run the
800
> > and
> > > I am sorry if I was unclear about that. You post is not at all
harsh
> > > as I am learning just as you are.
> > >
> > > This situation is difficult for me because my college doesnt not
> > have
> > > a coach conditioned in this area of running and lifting and
most of
> > > the athletes have to come up with their own strength and
> > conditioning
> > > programs. In my case is could be hit or miss because I never
know if
> > > Im doing the right thing. But In my humble opinion I believe the
> > > strength I have built up needs to be maintained as last year, I
had
> > a
> > > training partner who lifting like he ran the 100 meters and he
was
> > > about to run 1:52 for the 800 meters. My genetics and body type
may
> > > be different but what is the point of building great deals of
> > > strength and power and not using it if can beneficial. The power
> > lies
> > > in my situation is to balance the two without much weight gain
as I
> > > am very very prone to weight gain.
> > >
> > > Those are just my two cents. Here is my program form the week it
> > will
> > > allow everyone to see what I am doing. Heated debate is the
only way
> > > to get to the truth of close to it, so keep everything coming.
> > >
> > > Monday January 14th
> > >
> > > Hang Clean and Jerk at 140lbs 3 reps and 5 sets
> > > Back squats x 5 at 275lbs,4 at 280lbs,3 at 285lbs,3 at 290lbs,2
at
> > > 295lbs.
> > > Dumbell Bench Press 5 reps x 3 sets with 80lbs dumbells
> > > Dumbell Lat Row 6 reps x 3 sets with 65lbs dumbells.
> > >
> > > Wednesday January 16th
> > > Power snatch + overhead squat 3reps x 5 sets at 115lbs
> > > Barbell Bench Press 3reps x 5 sets a 190 lbs
> > > Good Mornings 5reps x5sets at 150 lbs
> > > Lat Pull Down 6x4
> > >
> > > I know I lift a little heavier than must 800 runners but is
just a
> > > natural things for me. I havent really stopped making progress
and I
> > > am not really gaining weight. So you guys can pick that apart. I
> > > appreciate the criticism.
> > >
> > > Brian.Archield
> > > Tampa,Florida USA
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Supertraining@yahoogroups.com <Supertraining%
40yahoogroups.com>,
> > "Nick Tatalias"
> > > <nick.tatalias@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Paul
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for this post, I guess be specific is the lesson here,
I
> > > take your
> > > > point. Being some one who only ever sprinted about 60m to
score
> > on
> > > an
> > > > interception, I don't always get the middle and long distance
> > > stuff. Rugby
> > > > players are very different to this despite needing to sustain
high
> > > intensity
> > > > sprints for about 90 seconds (probability of scoring peaks at
> > about
> > > 90
> > > > seconds of possession). My coach used to train a top level
(South
> > > African
> > > > champion standard) boxer also and again we adapted from the
> > > traditional road
> > > > training for him to short sprints (50 m) timed for 3 minute
round
> > > with and
> > > > gym work as the mainstay - of course they went to the boxing
> > > coaches for
> > > > technical training. The problem with a sample of one is that
the
> > > athlete may
> > > > just be a dam good fighter irrespective of what we did, yet
when
> > he
> > > went to
> > > > one off to one of the top fight trainers and back to
traditional
> > > road work
> > > > training he seemed to lack the thrust and power and his career
> > > tapered
> > > > off. I was trying to use that experience (learning from other)
> > and
> > > apply
> > > > this to Brian's situation. The problem is always making sure
that
> > > the
> > > > athlete is progressing optimally and Brian would have to judge
> > that
> > > for
> > > > himself.
> > > >
> > > > Best Regards
> > > > Nick Tatalias
> > > > Johannesburg
> > > > South Africa
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>

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