Health And General Life Care: RE: [Supertraining] Training Athletes?

I would think that machines, dumbbells and barbells offer options in training an athlete. In my opinion you can certain do more with barbells and dumbbells. I'm not a big fan of machines, but I wouldn't use a barbell for a plyo bench---I would use a Smith Machine.

Machines, due to the construction offer a minimum of options. For example, a bench press machine is used for it's primary function. You might be able to use it (depending on the construction) for a controlled deadlift or shrug. But, overall it's not as versatile as a barbell.

I won't argue that one is superior than the other in training every day Joe or Jane, but I would say that in training an athlete that a barbell, for instance, is capable of being used for a barbell complex as an example. That would be very difficult to do on any machine.

Mark Cotton, CPT
Central New Jersey, USA

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[Mod: Very sound post from the archives also:

Steven Plisk wrote:

I think there are at least three reasons for this: The first has to do with qualities like power output and rate of force development. European sport scientists refer to this as dynamic correspondence, whereas it is commonly referred to as mechanical specificity in the West. For example, power output during Olympic-style weightlifting is the highest ever documented, and is comparable to the maximum theoretically possible for a human. As pointed out by Garhammer [J. Strength Cond. Res. 7(2): 76-89, 1993], the explosive 'jump and pull' or 'dip and drive' actions of these movements are executed in 0.2 - 0.3 sec; and peak power production is:

* 4 - 5 times that of the deadlift or squat
* 11 - 15 times that of the bench press

The second is motor coordination. Skillful movements that challenge athletes to control, direct and stabilize the resistance have a motor control/learning effect that carries over to their coordinative abilities.

The third is their systemic effect. It's important to keep in mind that this is not limited to the neuromuscular system. The greater the exertion in these movements, the higher the production of endogenous hormones as well as activity and number of tissue receptors. This has a 'knock on' effect in the tissues.

The bottom line: Olympic lifts are inherently explosive and skillful, with excellent transfer to athleticism. In terms of results obtained from the time and effort invested in them, they are a very efficient way to train athletes." - Steve Plisk, MS, CSCS]

phillip g <pmg68@hotmail.com> wrote:
Are you actually comparing using fixed plane machines, to the use of computers and cell phones. People use computers and cell phones, becuase the technology is better and more functional. Machines are not. Most machines are based off designs created by a man who was by his own admission an "amatuer" anatomists and biomechanist. We don't adovocate machines becuase nothing an athlete encounters in the real world application is fixed plane. No one here has said that free weight, or Olympic Lifting replaces sport specific training. But what it does far far far better than machines can do, is train the body to adapt to loads, and exert force in all 3 planes of motion,much like it will have to in a sport environment.

Phillip Garrison
Mesa Community College
Mesa, AZ

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To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.comFrom: highlander89982003@yahoo.comDate: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 10:34:03 -0800Subject: [Supertraining] Training Athletes? (Was: Free weights versus machine weights)

David,I am curious, have you ever trained athletes? How would you train a football lineman?Bill RyanHavertown PaExarchives@aol.com wrote:It is not necessarily the tool, but it is said the use of a tool. According to many here a barbell/dumbbell is a far superior tool than a machine. The fixed plain argument is always a favorite here, but try bench pressing at an angle 10 degrees either way from the norm and see what happens. Seems many in this group carry a certain bias against machines. If I took a few of your personal machines away from you, you would find life a little difficult - say for example your computer and your cell phone and replace them with an antique crank phone and a typewriter. Many machine designs are questionable, but the far most important factor is their USE as well as with "free weights."The suggested use of Olympic Lifting (Sport) for the supplementary training of athletes is just plain silly. Teaching the skill of hurling a barbell upward for
football players is akin to teaching your swimmers blocking and tackling. If the swim coach was ever seen "coaching" his or her swimmers to do so, you could be sure the coach would be carted away by the men in white coats.============================

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