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I'd be interested in an answer to Bill Ryan's question too. But first
I will attempt to analyze some of your somewhat bizarre rhetoric
before I refute your ridiculously weak position.
Landau:
"According to many here a barbell/dumbbell is a far superior tool than
a machine."
Are you familiar with the NSCA? I suggest you spend some time in the
NSCA archives reviewing the massive data base of research on the
efficacy of free weight training. You might also consider anecdotal
evidence. The vast majority of post prep school athletic development
programs, in addition to Marine Recon, Navy Seals and on and on, ad
infinitum ad nauseum, use free weights as their primary strength
training modality. That's thousands of athletes in thousands of
colleges, plus elite military organizations. Statistically, if your
anecdotal evidence is running 70 plus percent in your favor, it's
valid. The dominance of free weight training in these institutions is
because it has the greatest efficacy. The core weight training
modality of the majority of these programs is Olympic Weightlifting.
Landau:
"but try bench pressing at an angle 10 degrees either way from the
norm and see what happens."
These are known as the incline and decline bench press. So what is
your point? Any well trained athlete can do these. Bench press is the
most over rated exercise in weight training. My 230 lb MMA athlete,
trained almost exclusively with Weightlifting and plyos, recently
benched a 3RM 350 lb flat bench in order to shut up some body building
fools at the local 24 Hr Fatness. Conversely, none of them can
overhead press 350 lbs 1RM or ATG squat 425 lbs for 3RM like he can.
This same athlete ran a 4.7 40 in high school, an improvement of over
1 second from testing before he began Weightlifting with me. He
weighed 150 lbs when he ran 5.7 and at 200 lbs 6 months later he ran a
4.7. This power was developed primarily from ATG squats and a lot of
"hurling a barbell upward.", as in Snatching and Cleaning and Jerking.
This same athlete played both sides fo the ball for the next three years.
My prep school football athletes experienced an average weight
increase of 30 lbs in 6 months concurrent with an average 150 lbs
increase in ATG squats and subsequent average half second decrease in
their 40 time. The only machine used was the leg press. My two 230 lbs
sophmores concluded 6 months training by leg pressing 1200 lbs for 24
reps each. Six months prior one of them weighed 265 lbs and the other
only weighed 200 lbs.
All my prep school kids ran sub 5 sec 40's and the fastest(and
smallest) ran a 4.3.
So please, keep making inane statements like "The suggested use of
Olympic Lifting (Sport) for the supplementary training of athletes is
just plain silly."
Excuse me? Your statement is beyond silly, its absurd.
"Teaching the skill of hurling a barbell upward for football players
is akin to teaching your swimmers blocking and tackling."
It's obvious from this statement that you haven't played or coached
football. So I'll keep it simple and just talk about the current
standard of of testing for football, the combine.
# The Bench Press: We ask combine athletes to lift 185 pounds as many
times as possible, while lying on a weight bench and lifting in a
traditional bench-press fashion.
Please note this is a free weight test. Utilizing the Principle of
Specificity would indicate preparing by doing free weight bench
presses.
# The Short Shuttle: This tests the combine athletes coordination and
lateral quickness. They are asked to first sprint sideways 5 yards
they can choose whether its left or right and then touch a line. Then,
they sprint 10 yards to the opposite side, again touching a line.
Lastly, they sprint slightly past the original starting point.
Olympic Weightlifting requires neurological adaptation and recruits
fast twitch muscle fibers along with coordination of all the major
muscle groups and full range of motion of the joints. An excellent
foundation for developing the skills necessary to to be quick and agile.
# The 10-yard and 40-yard sprints: These drills are pretty
self-explanatory. We time athletes in the 40-yard sprint, but also
time their speed during the first 10 yards of the sprint. While the
40-yard sprint time is considered very important for skill position
players, the 10-yard time sprint time has become very useful for
judging the speed of offensive and defensive linemen.
The ballistic nature of Olympic Weightlifting promotes explosiveness
and power. Weightlifting is the primary method used by sprinters to
increase power and speed. Running sprints does not produce a
significant increase in power, but improves technique and reaction
time. Weightlifting increases raw sprinting ability.
# The Broad Jump: Tests the combine athletes lateral burst and leg
explosion. We ask athletes to jump forward from a standing, set
position on a line.
Nothing like ATG squats, snatches and the extremely plyometric split
jerks to improve leaping ability.
# The Vertical Jump: Tests the combine athletes leg explosion while
leaping up. Athletes jump straight up while standing on a black mat. A
vertex mat is used to calculate how high the athletes have jumped.
Olympic Weightlifters are prodigious jumpers. Weightlifting is
essentially jumping with an implement in your hands. Vertical jumping
height is a major indices of power. Weightlifters are the most
powerful athletes in the world. The USA Women's Weightlifting Team out
jumped the USA Women's Volleyball Team last year in a jump off. That
included super heavyweight Cheyrl Hayworth!
I could continue with my experience training the Mens National
Volleyball Team or Kiraly's 40 in vertical, but I think I've made my
point.
The rest of your screed is a completely baffling non sequitur that
violates so many aspects of reasonable and rational argument I won't
waste the forums time with analysis, except to say this, in order to
be sound, an argument must be valid and have all true premises, and
you sir, are not even close.
"Validity guarantees that, if the premises are true, the conclusion
must also be true. Sitting at home, we check the validity of an
argument. We then go out into the real world, discover that the
premises are in fact true, and claim that the argument is sound. This
is also just to say that we've checked the world correctly (i.e., that
we know for certain that each of our premises true) and that we've
checked validity correctly."
- UCI website
Obviously Mr. Landau, you have not done this.
W.G. Johnson
Ubermensch Sports Consultancy
San Diego CA.
In Supertraining@
wrote:
>
> David,
>
> I am curious, have you ever trained athletes? How would you train
a football lineman?
>
> Bill Ryan
> Havertown Pa
>
> Exarchives@.
> It is not necessarily the tool, but it is said the use of
a tool. According
> to many here a barbell/dumbbell is a far superior tool than a
machine. The
> fixed plain argument is always a favorite here, but try bench
pressing at an
> angle 10 degrees either way from the norm and see what happens.
Seems many in
> this group carry a certain bias against machines. If I took a few of
your
> personal machines away from you, you would find life a little
difficult - say for
> example your computer and your cell phone and replace them with an
antique
> crank phone and a typewriter. Many machine designs are questionable,
but the
> far most important factor is their USE as well as with "free weights."
> The suggested use of Olympic Lifting (Sport) for the supplementary
> training of athletes is just plain silly. Teaching the skill of
hurling a
> barbell upward for football players is akin to teaching your
swimmers blocking
> and tackling. If the swim coach was ever seen "coaching" his or her
swimmers to
> do so, you could be sure the coach would be carted away by the men
in white
> coats.
> ============
>
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