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Gordon,
I understand you have a passionate dislike of machines of any kind in the fitness field.
No problem there. However when you decide to trash any trainer who advocates any use of a machine as poorly educated/or lazy thats a big problem. Your attitude borders on arrogance! No doubt you have many years in the field both training others and yourself but no amount of experience or number of certifications/
I too have followed some of Alwyn Cosgroves training ideas. He is a terrific source of information. The question, however, of what to do if you show up at the gym and all the equipment is gone is rather rediculous if you think logically. I'm not sure what others think but if that happened to me your bloody right I'd be on the phone...to the police and the owners! Then I'd put together the workout for the client.
So you don't get the wrong idea Gordon. I don't advocate the use of machines in place of free weights. I do believe there is a place for both "tools" if used correctly. As for machines breaking and needing repair and salesman etc. It seems to me that free weights get damaged, bent , broken. the have to be replaced as well. Which means a call to the respective salesman.
Yes there are trainers that are not up to par. Just as there are plumbers, doctors, lawyers, proffs etc. that don't make the grade (with appologies anyone in this group from those various professions.
Sorry to have rambled on here for so long but the point I'm trying to get too is, this group as I understand it, is to allow the sharing of information so we can all learn with the goal of improving our own trainnig and that which we do for others. When we start attacking people in general or personally it realy detracts from the intent of the group.
Lee Robillard
Mississauga, Ontario
Canada
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gordon waddell <g_k_waddell@
Hi all,
since it was my dislike of the Smith machine that caused a lot of this debate, I have been reading all the subsequent posts. There has not been one validated argument for machine training in place of free weights in athletics or proper training. They may have some uses in rehab and bodybuilding (which we all know is NOT as sport).
Can anyone name any current national or world class coaches/ athletes (that are NOT being paid huge endorsements) that advocate machine training for athletes, let alone people wanting to move and function better?? I have found through personal experience that it is poorly educated or lazy trainers / coaches (mostly trainers in commercial gyms) that use machine training for you don't have invest time learning and teaching proper lifting, it takes little program design knowledge and it allows you to train more people in a day which equals a bigger paycheck!
I know that it is mentally & physically exhausting designing, preparing and teaching REAL exercises. I get a great workout all day just lifting dumbbells, kettlebells, plates etc. for my clients / athletes. How much effort and knowledge does it take to move a selector pin and say sit here?
It comes down to money as usual - salesmen get big commissions selling machines with pads and parts that wear out and need to be replaced (more money) and trainers do not need skill or knowledge to use a machine which allows them to train more people which again is more money. Many clients are scared of free weights or told by gym sales people the machines are better - it is up to the trainer to dispell these myths and give real training but they don't for fear of losing a paying client. (or they just don't know how to train). I never had to sell a client a line of BS, I always told the truth and let the quality of the workout sell its self.
In my previous life as a commercial gym Fitness Director I was forced by the GM & Owner to hire MANY poorly skilled trainers for: we needed bodies on the floor, they looked good, they were good at sales or they were a friend of the powers that be. Every basic knowledge test I gave, the trainers scored poorly on - My one essay question was describe how to do a barbell squat, the answers were ridiculous!!
Since the tests scores were so poor I started borrowing a test from Alwyn Cosgrove; it consists of only 1 oral question:" If I hire you today and you start tomorrow and you come in at 6:00am and find the gym empty (all the equipment gone - you have the client & 4 walls) what would you do?" The pathetic answers ranged from: Call immediately and apologize, offer free sessions, extra month on the membership, try to rent equipment etc. The only CORRECT answer is: TRAIN THE CLIENT with bodyweight exercises!! For over 4 years - NO ONE passed the test!
If you need always need machines to train a person, then you are not a trainer but a babysitter or "rent-a-friend" for an hour.
Thanks to all the great coaches and trainers who are putting up the great responses to as the superiority of free weights!
"Machines were created to keep the geeks of the free weights!" - not sure who said it first but it is brilliant!
Gordon Waddell
NJ, USA
To: Supertraining@
From: kshobman@sasktel.
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 07:55:18 -0600
Subject: [Supertraining] Re: Free weights versus machine weights
The key consideration is teaching the athlete powerful and coordinated
hip extension, knee extension and plantar flexion. I don't think you
have to teach the entire lift to do so, but a snatch high pull makes a
lot of sense for many athletes that are looking to improve these
movements. Most athletes I know would just as soon learn to clean - they
enjoy the movement and athleticism of the lifts themselves.
I certainly wouldn't advocate nothing, but the olympic lifts. But in a
well-developed program of training for football players (and many other
athletes) they can be a valuable exercise.
Having said that, it certainly isn't the only way. IMO it is one of the
best, but there are many roads that lead to excellence.
Exarchives@aol.
> The suggested use of Olympic Lifting (Sport) for the supplementary
> training of athletes is just plain silly. Teaching the skill of hurling a
> barbell upward for football players is akin to teaching your swimmers
> blocking
> and tackling. If the swim coach was ever seen "coaching" his or her
> swimmers to
> do so, you could be sure the coach would be carted away by the men in
> white
> coats.
>
>
>
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