Health And General Life Care: [Supertraining] Re: Free weights versus machine weights

Linda,

You make valid points about machines not being fit to every body type however I don't thing that means there is absolutely no place for machines for anybody anywhere. Now I may have missed it but was there a post by someone saying that machines are superior to free weights? If so I would disagree with them as well. For the AVERAGE person in todays gyms a combination of free weights and machines would be quite useful to increase their health and fitness levels. For someone , such as yourself, free weight training is the obvious choice because it allows you to train the way you compete.

I guess what it comes down to is people will use what works best for them. While some may not agree with anothers training methods, provided they are safe and that person is happy with the results, and they stay motivated to train isn't that what is important?

Lee Robillard
Mississauga, Ontario
Canada
==============================

deadliftdiva@comcast.net wrote:
Outside of the wonderland of Mr. Landau's perfectly fitted machines, the rest of us still have trouble getting people to fit existing frames and properly working within the ROM's they are given. If I visit, does this mean I can't bring my chalk and deadlift? Do you have a machine for that?

What marvel of the machine world is he using, seeing as Ken and I both have seen a good deal of problem with machines in our gyms and smaller people? Leverages on shoulder and biceps machines too are completely out of sync with arm length and height of the person in several cases...and I've seen lat pulldowns where the lifter could not put their feet flat AND still reach the bar to pull it down.

Years ago, I suffered with a universal machine that was supposedly a military press. As I'm 5'9" and long armed, I couldn't see how anybody shorter could engage it properly...without a BOX?

Maintenance of cable sets and other headaches where something abruptly JERKS or causes other disruptions....

Free weights are still the best form for everyone as a whole, outside of injury rehab and someone whose balance is so completely gone they cannot stand or sit reasonably to perform moves.

My knees killed me on the Smith machine for nearly 2 years. The free weight squat not only had me using more weight, but also a true sense of proprioception, which I did not learn on the Smith. Because the Smith was not a TRUE squat, requiring balance and all the other things present in the real back squat, I had to start with HALF the weight and learn the real move. When I quit the Smith, I had quite a bit on there too...the irony? people used to come up and say "wow, you're strong, are you a POWERLIFTER"? based on the SMITH "SQUAT". (My sport clearly needs more exposure on what it IS ....? sheesh!)

There are far too many athletes succeeding in places with a bar, a bench, and a sq rack to say free weights are not superior even as machines to fixed machines....

The Phantom
aka Linda Schaefer, CMT, CSCS, competing powerlifter
Denver, Colorado, USA

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "kendaiganoneill" <kayoneill@earthlink.net>
We continue struggling with a Nautilus pullover. People around 5'4"
must have an additional piece of seating added, while under 5'1"
requires two layers of seating. One size does not fit all. Even
average height persons (5'9") have to dink around with the pullover
since it does not properly fit their arm length. Guys above 6'3" have
no problem with it. High chair build ups also required for the Lateral
machine. Good news is the Nautilus ab machine has broken down so we
can get rid of it.
The Icarion line of machines is a living nightmare. Looks as if they
knocked off someone else's appearance of a design without
understanding the biomechanics in the slightest. We also have a life
of old LifeLine machines evidencing poor sense of biomechanics.

The solution? Barbells, dumbbells, JC Predator bands, stability balls,
medicine balls - implementing Scott Abel's hybrid and MET training and
JC Santana's hybrid ideas.

Ken O'Neill
Austin, Texas

--- In Supertraining@yahoogroups.com, "exarchives" <Exarchives@...> wrote:
>
>
> > ========================================
> >
> > deadliftdiva@ wrote: Well I'd like to post an opinion AND
observation on the fixed path machines
> at least.
> >
> > They aren't built to accommodate small to average sized WOMEN for
one thing!
> >
> > The leverages on most machines in use do not suit women - they
find they are not in the proper
> position - e.g. feet flat to floor or leverage length adjustments.
SMALL women and yes, very small
> MEN do not fit the machines and must find ways to alter the form to
fit THEM.
> >
> > Whereas a FREE weight knows no such restriction....the only
limiter being hand size perhaps, but
> that is not limited to small people lol. I know of at least one man
of SHW size who had undersized
> palms...and thus never deadlifted what people thought he should for
his other strengths lol.
> >
> > Straps can be used to help overcome this particular size issue if
required.
> >
> > But the fact is, a lot of the machines - cybex, hammer strength
(trademarks/brands names both)
> cannot be adjusted to proper use by small individuals, the majority
of whom are women.
> >
> > The Phantom
> > aka Linda Schaefer, CMT, CSCS, competing powerlifter
> > Denver, Colorado, USA
>
> ****
> To answer Linda,
>
> we have "small" women that we fit perfectly into our selectorized
machines that are
> getting measurable results. You might be right in some cases, but
with our particualr situation, we
> have no such problem.
>
> Regards
> David Landau,
> Aventura, Florida
>

__._,_.___

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